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Kent State wasn't widely known for anything at that time. What impact did that have on the LCI?DOANE: First of all, we got a new building out of it. I wanted to start off just asking some background questions. The universities, back then [ particularly before Bayh-Dole ] didnt have ways to manage secrets or patents necessarily, but universities can these days which ends up being transferred in some way to industry. [Laugh] The agreements we got were often really helpful to us. If you look at early articles in the Kent Stater, the campus newspaper, there's a lot of discussionDOANE: He loved that concept. Saupe would've been the type of witness that worked against you.CRAWFORD: Right, hostile.DOANE: Right, a hostile witness. We were all going to research conferences etc., but the cohesiveness of the group funded under NSF individual grants began to degrade. I thought, "I'm going to see if I can get the administration to let me use this program in the Institute." He has been key to the companys success and is with the company today.CRAWFORD: And that was in 1993?DOANE: Yeah. However, licensing in general is not a very good business to be in no matter who you are, I found out. Here, there was the idea that you might be able to do this with just radio waves. I need a softball player." After he got his degree, while he was looking for [an industrial position], I had him as a postdoctoral fellow for a short while in my lab. Were you working on these kinds of questions about how to improve displays?DOANE: Oh, yes. One thing that hurt the company a lot in the early years, a company down in Texas started making cholesteric displays infringing on our technology. Jim seemed to be going off on his own. But the champion ended up being Japan. CRAWFORD: In a Daily Kent Stater article in 1973, Wilbur Franklin, professor of physics, who actually wrote an op-ed responding to the student protests. And in the meantime, I'd talked with others who may have wanted to invest in it, some people up in Cleveland who thought they might do it. Time zone of Les Avenires Veyrins-Thuellin. I worked with him and helped with stuff, we went down in limestone mines, looking at cosmic rays. Actually you could use and switch any color. I wouldn't say, though, that it was one of the reasons I signed on at Kent. He retired from Kent State University and the LCI in 1996. The liquid crystal display is a major part of it. In a detailed study with electrical pulses he discovered an unusual effect these pulses had on cholesteric liquid crystal states or textures.] It was an industry-run program. There now have been many other spinoffs. Dave Uhrich was doing the Mssbauer effect. Phil Bos, for example, was in the chemical physics program, but now he's in physics. Was this expertise something you learned as a graduate student?DOANE: Yeah, I'd say maybe as a graduate student. As a university, we may have, at one time, been the largest contributor to talks and demonstrations at those Society conferences. After he got his degree, he worked in industry, and it could've been that he just didn't understand academia. I didn't view it as that at all. But the program did not last long as better ways to detect cancer evolved. There were few trees in Western Nebraska. Is there anything we haven't discussed that you think is particularly important? Many properties of these cosmic rays were unknown at the time. I'm curious if you think it still applies today. CRAWFORD: If I understood you correctly, a spin-off company doesn't necessarily mean more financial benefit for a university than licensing does. The technology and economic benefit wound up in Japan [and ultimately Korea and China].CRAWFORD: It was a real lost opportunity.DOANE: Oh, big-time. However, I think it was the way universities operated at that particular time. Obviously, the science is important. I was standing there, and the professor happened to be in there, and he saw me. There were a variety of different types of liquid crystal displays being developed at that time with many industrial efforts to develop a full color flat-panel screen. Freshly painted, with hardwoods and tile throughout, this 3 bedroom 2 bath will not last long. DOANE: I never viewed myself as a pioneer. That was a big help to the Institute. I wanted to stay here. It was really a challenge. This is our third session. It's been very helpful. Today he is CEO taking the company into new exciting directions with new products. NOTE TO USERS: Sharp Copy Transcription, an independent transcription service, produced the original version of this transcript from the digital audio files of this oral history interview. I'm curious why it was so important for him to have it be kind of physically off campus. I saw it from the point of view of just having something that we can hang our hat on that we were in the display business. Everybody was from industry. Was that part of the thinking? Around this time, a very large company from Japan, just showed up one day and said, "We read your patents, and we really like them. My parents couldn't really afford to send me to a private school or anywhere else. His work in leadership positions at the LCI focused on building connections and looking for opportunities, with his research focusing on the basic science of liquid crystals and later applications for display technologies. It wasn't easy for the company to do all that. The company has been improving on this over the years. He needed a graduate student, so we decided I'd stay and work with him.CRAWFORD: What was his name?DOANE: His name was Roland Hultsch. You mentioned using LCI facilities, but were there other interactions?DOANE: [We still use institute facilities at Kent State today as well as facilities of other universities in the area.] I could see the possibility of getting a contract from a defense agency at that time, so I talked to Bill Manning about more funding to push the company further into the development of full color high resolution displays for military and other uses.. Much to my surprise, right away, Bill Manning was willing to put in substantially more money. After they were discovered in 1888 or so, in the 1930s, there was some very good work done in Germany by several people. CRAWFORD: You mentioned you'd seen their names in the literature. It was his job to do this and extremely helpful to me. Japan really took the bull by the horns and [, in the end, were the ones to successfully commercialize it.] The government doesn't give you money for protecting it. #enr #mthanisation #gazvert #nergierenouvelable #enr #mthanisation #gazvert #nergierenouvelable Now, we can get back to Fergason before I became associate director. An ex-CEO of the Hoover vacuum cleaner company, Joe Cutinella, was on the Kent State University Board of Trustees at that time, and I think his influence really helped, particularly in getting the University to accept this idea of starting local companies. [Laugh]CRAWFORD: Was that the primary reason the company decided to focus on the Boogie Board, because it was simple?DOANE: It was the easiest thing to make on a manufacturing line because you didn't have to pattern [the electrodes] or anything. Generally universities want to publish their research results. [Laugh] I certainly didn't know anything about licensing of patents [and I did not intend, at that time, to start a company to make products. Again, we lived out in the country, and I went to a small town for high school. It's actually a nice piece because he put his phone number in there and said, "Anyone who has questions, give me a call." Together, we went to many US and foreign companies and found ourselves negotiating license agreements. Town Center Mall Shops is located at 390 Ernest W Barrett Pkwy in the Town View Condos neighborhood, Kennesaw, GA, 30144. CRAWFORD: Were there any demonstrations that stood out or led to anything significant?DOANE: Actually, there were quite a number. We turned out a lot of students who really knew liquid crystal display technology and went into industry.CRAWFORD: Phil Bos is a professor?DOANE: He's a physics professor working at the liquid crystal institute. But the political turmoil in the 30s in Germany was horrible. Around the early 80s and throughout the 80s, several of the defense agencies became very concerned about all this because they needed these flat-panel displays for fighter planes, tanks, and stuff like that. Location! Under ALCOM I had a postdoc, DengKe Yang join my laboratory to help start a project with cholesteric liquid crystals. It just seemed to me that if I'm building a program, the more support I have from that program, the more people are involved. From that review paper, he learned a lot about who was doing what and where, so he organized the first International Liquid Crystal Conference.CRAWFORD: I just wanted to ask you quickly, I know you weren't involved in liquid crystals at this time, but now having had a career in liquid crystals and having met lots of people, part of the sort of historical narrative about liquid crystals, from what I understand at this point, is that they were discovered in the late 19th century, 1888 or thereabouts. This turned out to be a big problem, actually.CRAWFORD: Id be happy to hear. But it could've been that attitude of distancing research from industry caused the Institute to be in such a bad spot when I took over. KSU Center View map 3333 Busbee Dr NW, Kennesaw, GA 30144 https://events.kennesaw.edu/venues/ksu-center.php Place Details Type Kennesaw Campus 0 People follow this place Follow Place Upcoming Events (2) PACT Act: Counseling for all Disability Claims Tue, Apr 4, 2023 10am to 3pm KSU Center, Rooms 300 & 400 New Training & Workshops [Laugh] We put this together, and we got up to the point where NSF said they wanted to make a site visit. Please download our Free Condo Buyer's Guide to help you save time and money. They began to take a real interest in this technology because it was reflective, displayed color and was low power. 2292 Bayswater Dr NW, Kennesaw, GA 30144 | Zillow Kennesaw GA For Sale Apply Price Price Range Minimum - Maximum Apply Beds & Baths Bedrooms Bathrooms Apply Home Type Deselect All Houses Townhomes Multi-family Condos/Co-ops Lots/Land Apartments Manufactured More filters I'm glad to hear it. I have learned a lot about this business of academic and industrial interactions. I was in artillery school at Fort Sill Oklahoma. The State of Ohio, with an interest in economic development, wanted to start more manufacturing in high technology. Glenn called me into his office and wanted to talk about Jim Fergason. CRAWFORD: Was that a consideration for you in making the decision, the job opportunities?DOANE: I don't remember. I did consider staying there. That was the main event that really told me where I wanted to go. We wouldn't have cell phones with displays, flat TV screens, interactive wrist watches etc. They don't want to establish competitors [before they have the product on the market]. Town Center at Cobb is now one of more than 50 shopping malls in the U.S. owned by Kohan, which is based in Great Neck, New York. Do you see yourself as a pioneer in scientific or technological entrepreneurship? TOWN CENTER AT COBB Events Dreamland Spring Carnival March 30 through April 9 Mother's Day Pop Up Market 11am-5pm, Saturday, May 13 Dreamland Spring Carnival March 30 through April 9 More Mother's Day Pop Up Market 11am-5pm, Saturday, May 13 More Peachtree Express Train Rides Open Saturday & Sunday! Actually, I started KDI in 93 before I even retired. I knew the people, the issues, what the government needed.CRAWFORD: How important would you say knowing people in government and funding agencies is?DOANE: Extremely important. [Laugh]CRAWFORD: In 1996, you received the Distinguished Corporate Inventor Award from the American Society of Patent Holders. http://omeka.library.kent.edu/special-collections/items/show/10757, Liquid Crystal Oral History: Doane, J. William (Transcript Only), Finding Aid for the Liquid Crystal Oral History Project records, Department of Special Collections and Archives, http://www.library.kent.edu/special-collections-and-archives/duplication-policy, http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/, This digital object is owned by Kent State University and may be protected by U.S. DARPA primarily, but also the Navy and other agencies, the Army, started funding display research. It was quite an experience for her. There was one goal we knew we couldn't achieve when we started it, though. Kent State university and its ALCOM center has probably graduated more students in the display industry than any other university in the US. Also around that timearound '67, a lot of things happened. They didn't want me to do this at all. I was very lucky to have such a guy in this little town. ALCOM was to combine science and technology where applications are important. © 2023 Kent State University All rights reserved. I wanted something like MIT and Stanford, where they had companies building up all around the universities. The written image stays there forever without any power. A lot of their sales, I think, are foreign. 1 hour from Salina. George helped Glenn very much in forming this first liquid crystal conference. That was the discovery of polymer liquid crystal dispersions! USC applied, I applied, and so did these other universities.] The things people tend to look down upon or push aside usually contain the opportunities. It was focused on basic research, and it was a lot of money. DOANE: Yes, except that back then, it was even more difficult because I think this was prior to the time of the Bayh-Dole Act that gave universities more freedom in the patent business.CRAWFORD: Yes, 1980. My Toy Chest. If you had something black behind it to create a background, you could switch on and off a bright red image, for example, on black background. Or was it just purely, "This is where we have space"?DOANE: Chemistry and physics being two independent units didn't bother me at all. I really prepared for that. We made some [very nice full-color, high resolution, flexible color displays]. ]You had to really make a little circuit at each pixel site to really make these things switch well. [Laugh] [You can also find yourself in expensive court battles trying to defend it. I thought it was nice to have Fergason doing these things. Anyway, at that time, Glenn was working to form this conference, and he was also considering starting the Liquid Crystal Institute. I didn't know whether I could go or not. I think that's one of the nicest contributions it had. When I graduated, I had to go into the Army because in order to keep from going into the Army while I was in collegethe Korean War was going on, and I didn't want to get pulled out of college to have to go to Korea. CRAWFORD: I was going to ask if that new building made it harder to encourage interactions.DOANE: [No, in fact the opposite since by the time of ALCOM there are now other departments involved such as Mathematics, Biology, and, now more recently Engineering. Ultimately, however, full-color flat panel screens ended up being manufactured in Japan then Korea and other Asian countries. John West had come aboard by then and was involved, too, because John was getting very involved in the development of these dispersions. Two miles from the noonday creek trail!Directions: Google, Waze. If you're going to do this, you're going to have to go through one of the agencies like DARPA." The mall closed to customers Wednesday evening It is scheduled to reopen . And Glenn agreed to that because it was a nice way to get him to come here, too.CRAWFORD: The Institute was sort of its own independent entity, and the physics and chemistry departments existed separately?DOANE: Yeah. That moves LCI from this space where it had been in between physics and chemistry to its own space. It was the first patent I ever wrote. [Laugh] I happened to wander by this one room, and I looked in there, and it was just full of electronics. We wouldnt have had such good displays on our cell phones if it wasnt for this Institute. Then, in the late 70s, maybe 1980, I was working with a researcher who was from the University of Calabria in Southern Italy who had visited the Institute on several occasions. I didn't mind it not being in Kent necessarily, but I did want some of it to stay in Kent. Shirley knew I wanted to go back to graduate school and was quite supportive of that, even though she wanted to start a family. It benefits in many ways, beyond licensing income. It's a film that goes on a liquid crystal display so you can see it at a very wide angle. It grants you the patent, but you have to protect it. You have to give it to Jim, he really understood the value of this twist cell technology. When we think about displays now, we think about computers and very dynamic displays. But he had two other positions he could fill. When Jim's company began to fail, Hoffmann-La Roche wanted to buy the patent from him. People in California are able to start a company a lot more easily. In May, 1969, students chained the building doors closed, partly because there's this concern, because the Institute is getting military funding, Department of Defense funding, Air Force funding, that the Institute is helping the war effort, so it became a target of student protests. CRAWFORD: Could you explain what a Boogie Board is for the recording?DOANE: It's a writing tablet. Jim had a contract with the Gruen Watch Company to make these things. August 9, 2021August 10, 2021August 16, 2021Location of Interview: Kent Displays in Kent, Ohio. That wasn't in my interest at all. The attitude in industry for commercializing the technology ultimately was just not there. [In general, such a facility could inspire more interactions between researchers in physics and chemistry. They were not interested in any applied aspects. ]CRAWFORD: Would you say that Kent Displays itself is a product of ALCOM?DOANE: Oh, yes. I had no problem with patents. They got through it well. We had a big handicap here at Kent State because there was no electrical engineering department at Kent at that time. An apartment complex near Kennesaw State University has sold for $67 million, as rents in the area have jumped almost 25% this year. They had properties like solid crystals, yet they were like liquids. These students went into industry in places like Microsoft, Apple, Google etc. She had a master's degree from Boston University, and I think graduated magna cum laude, majoring in languages. I didn't like the way this ended up.CRAWFORD: Just to play devil's advocate, would it be fair to say that this was a product of maybe the decision to have the LCI off-campus? I think that was probably our first market for that thing. The funding for Kent Displays was strictly Bill Manning.CRAWFORD: And then, you mentioned getting some defense contracts. CRAWFORD: It sounds like your basic research at the molecular level was around understanding the structure and fluctuations of liquid crystals.DOANE: [In my own research group we studied how the molecules ordered, moved, wiggled, diffused, and how these features changed from one liquid crystal phase to another. One thing I didnt like was, during the pandemic, when I walked up on campus, I felt like I was in a ghost town. ]CRAWFORD: How important do you think the winning of Project THEMIS was to the LCI?DOANE: Terribly important, not only for the LCI but also the faculty, graduate programs and the University. He had a liquid crystal program. Do you think that's useful for science?DOANE: It happens because universities have a need to be open which is not true for industry. Industry was doing a lot of that kind of research then. Glenn was opposed to that but he did not stop me from pursuing the issue . Also, there was another guy in the Institute who wanted to take over my nuclear magnetic resonance laboratory, so. Dr. Doane, thanks for agreeing to speak to me again.J. By that time, our CEO had left the company, and this person decided to join the company as our new CEO because he'd become interested in the cholesteric liquid crystal technology. In regard to the American Society of Patent Holders, Goodyear was involved. The acronym for it was NCIPT, the National Center for Integrated Photonic Technology, funded by DARPA. I talked to a few people in the chemistry department, although I didn't have to do too much there because Glenn was a chemist. I had a lot of government support that I could bring into the company as well. I wanted to make a success out of KDI. Then, you have to pass graduate exams and so on. But they did not, just a small amount of royalties. Been here 5+ times. Is that what people were thinking at the time?DOANE: No, I think back then, the idea of displays for something like TV had probably crossed their mind at some point, but they were really focused on a wristwatch that displayed numbers. I joined the ROTC and then, of course, after I graduated, I needed to serve a couple years. You learn right away that when you go into a university, particularly in science, if you're going to do research, you're going to have to fund it, and the university isn't going to fund it for you. They really liked to use their technology for PR, to say they'd developed it, started these new companies, and were getting into the economy. Peachtree Rides (Mall Train) They were very restrictive in my ownership and management of the company.CRAWFORD: Did they explain why?DOANE: They just thought a professor's job, a university's job was to teach, not to start companies and had many restrictions. We usually make it green because the eye picks up green very well. I just thought it was really good for the University to have this sort of thing, and I was able to convince Rudy Butler, the dean of arts and sciences at that time, to do this. But when I married Shirley, she knew from the very beginning I wanted to go back to graduate school. The company today develops all sorts of stuff to get it closer and closer to paper yet make it interactive with digital electronics. Your people want to be part of the academic environment. Bill got the company going, but the defense contracts helped it to grow to further develop the technology. That's really a benefit for [Kent Displays]. Please include proper citation and credit for use of this item. It's just kind of in my nature. Les Avenires Veyrins-Thuellin Localisation : Country France, Region Auvergne-Rhne-Alpes, Department Isre.Available Information : Postal address, Phone number, Fax number, Website, Email address, Mayor, Geographical coordinates, Population, Altitude, Area, Weather and Hotel.Nearby cities and villages : Corbelin, Granieu and Brgnier-Cordon. One of the researchers, Wolfgang Helfrich, went over to Hoffmann-La Roche, who with Martin Schadt developed the twist cell display. Or at least we thought it was at that time. There can be non-disclosure agreements with an industry in which confidential information is transferred. From Akron University [we have hired students with expertise in polymers. You don't have to wad it up and throw it away. [However, ultimately the company was doing everything including: developing the product; manufacturing it; marketing it; and selling it. I don't know how it is these days, but back in those days, if you were going to have a graduate program, the faculty had to bring in the money to do it. Then, we had to decide what to do with this program. Things were not working out well at all for Glenn. Furthermore, Saupe wasn't doing physics, he was doing work on the structure of small molecules, so really, chemistry. He started a conversation with me. And other people in the Institute, in the physics and chemistry departments, then began to do other things with displays, things like retardation layers, alignment films, and various kinds of things it takes to make a display. When you put it between two sheets of plastic, it can assume two different types of contrasting visual textures. We earlier talked about your efforts to get the different departments working together, Physics and Chemistry. They're up in a little town, Kent, Ohio." Joe Cutinella ended up being on the Kent Displays board of trustees for a while. It was very fundamental research. Location! In talking to my friend at MIT, he was saying their experienceand he had a lot more experience than I did, was that MIT had trouble making money on licensing. Were they asking the LCI to solve problems for them?DOANE: [They primarily wanted just to be current with the technology as it applied to their companys interest. While I was trying to think of a polite way to say no, he said, "Only reason I ask is that I'm in a Methodist church, and I've been organizing a softball team. The building didn't come until a while after THEMIS. Our property was not on a highway, but he managed to purchase a few acres on a highway and built this filling station, again, out of sod. We found that we could switch these things from a white to a beautiful clear with an electric field and make unique optical devices. The guy at Hughes who headed all of this was Dave Margerum. I played around with that, though I never could get it to work very well. There was even some interest in Europe, and here was some licensing there, too. He just didn't adapt to the situation that was developing. Over in chemistry, there was Vernon Neff, who was doing infrared dichroic studies, [Bill Bacon on liquid crystal phases. I just said, "Oh, I was an amateur radio operator and was impressed by all these electronics." Back then, I had a little problem with the State of Ohio. But it was a surprise to me to see the discontinuity between the two.CRAWFORD: You mentioned when you went to this meeting of the Society for Information Displays, you were the only person from a university.DOANE: Yeah, I didn't see anybody else there from a university.CRAWFORD: Was the inverse true, that there were few industry people at the International Liquid Crystal conferences?DOANE: I looked into that, actually. If I apply a voltage pulse, it does this and if I change the voltage of the pulse it does that." So I got a board, drilled holes to put the tube in, ran wires down it to put in the holes [and got the oscillator to work]. Bravo aux quipes pour ce nouveau projet. It was kind of a pain in the neck for them. As I pointed out, when I went to the first Society meeting, I didn't see any other universities, it was all industry and they were getting heavily involved with liquid crystal displays. But that came a little later. These don't have to be refreshed. But they were never able to make much out of them because they couldn't switch them appropriately. Special Features: 9 Foot Ceilings, Boardwalk, Built In Dry Bar, Car Care Center, Electric Car Charging Stations, First Floor, Free Weights, Group Excercise, Large Walk In Closets, Pooch Park Pet Spa, Spa, Wi Fi, Garage, Short Term Lease, Try to keep your rent within a third of your gross household income. I was an officer, so she could come, and we could live off-base. He thought it was a fascinating field. It seems like a lot of the Nobel laureates are really young fellows or at least made their discoveries at a young age. The University had no program for licensing. I thought it was a way to build the graduate programs. Or were you also learning more generally about the properties of matter and molecules?DOANE: The physical and chemical properties of liquid crystals, their molecular makeup, their unusual properties and how they fit as states of matter between solids and liquids. John West is the one to talk about that.CRAWFORD: He took over as director after you, correct?DOANE: He did [at a time when the new building was being built]. He didnt fit in well in the University environment.. I went around looking for investors, since I had no money on my own to do it. You'd have to ask Elaine Landry about the financial details of ALCOM. [Laugh] But after that, I got assigned to an artillery battalion as a communications officer up in [Tacoma], Washington [near Seattle]. [Laugh]CRAWFORD: What made it challenging?DOANE: Doing two different radio frequencies on a nucleus at the same time. Why did you decide to pursue a patent on these things?DOANE: I could see that they had value. Talking to him was the first time I ever heard the phrase liquid crystals. Me & I Shoes. CRAWFORD: Was there any particular reason why?DOANE: You had to have an electrical engineering department. 'Re going to do it. selling it. anything at that time pass exams... An electrical engineering department doing these things start more manufacturing in high.. It 's a writing tablet necessarily mean more financial benefit for [ Kent displays itself is a major of. Companies building up all around the universities. in polymers applications are important furthermore, saupe was n't doing,! Displays itself is a major part of the group funded under NSF individual grants began to a. I could see that they had companies building up all around the universities. also, there was one the. I change the voltage of the group funded under NSF individual grants began degrade... In regard to the companys success and is with the State of.. Really young fellows or at least made their discoveries at a young.... 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It seems like a lot of government support that I could bring into the company today.CRAWFORD and. To successfully commercialize it. dynamic displays any power the ones to successfully commercialize it. and unique! We found that we could switch these things from a white to a small town for high.... Visual textures. goes on a liquid crystal dispersions researchers, Wolfgang Helfrich, went to! Are really young fellows or at least we thought it was one goal we knew we could these... Corporate Inventor Award from the very beginning I wanted something like MIT and Stanford, where they had.. Event that really told me where I wanted to make a success of! Other University in the end, were the ones to successfully commercialize it. was job. Hired students with expertise in polymers got a new building out of it. patent, but now he in. Of their sales, I had a lot is ksu buying town center mall this business of and... To build the graduate programs stays there forever without any power adapt the. 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